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Neuer Patch zum Testen

Eine Diskussion über Neuer Patch zum Testen im Forum StarCraft 2. Teil des Strategie-Bereichs; Hello everyone, We’re trying to finalize the changes we’d like to look into with a balance test map very soon. ...

  1. #1
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    Neuer Patch zum Testen


    Hello everyone,

    We’re trying to finalize the changes we’d like to look into with a balance test map very soon. Like we said recently, our main focus has been on Protoss strength, especially against Terran.

    Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50

    We’d like to try a smaller change with Photon Overcharge duration than we previously proposed because we agree that going too low on this side could negatively affect PvP. On the balance test map, we must make sure to not only test how the change works out against the other races, but also in one-base PvP play.

    Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100

    This is another option we can go with. We hope this will decrease the effectiveness of early game Protoss strength, as well as somewhat decrease the power of Blink-based strategies, which have become a lot more effective recently.

    Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in


    We believe this change will not only help Terran against Protoss, which is our top concern right now, but it’ll also help with TvP mech. Right now, we’re seeing a lot more mech usage in both TvT and TvZ, and as far as mech buffs go, we’d like to only touch TvP right now.

    Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25

    We’re most concerned about PvZ with this change since Hydralisks are really only a core unit in that matchup. We’d love to see how the testing goes for this change on the next balance test map.

    We don’t think this will be problematic for either side in TvZ right now. It’s very Zergling/Baneling/Mutalisk focused for Zerg, whereas Terran players are exploring mech play and have the already solid option to go bio. We were thinking this buff will potentially help open up some more options for Zerg in this matchup.

    In ZvZ, we’re seeing a lot more Roach focused strategies than before and believe this change will allow for easier Roach/Hydra transitions.

    Overall, we want to check what a general Hydralisk buff would do for all three matchups in the next balance test map.

    Late game PvZ

    Additionally on the Zerg front, we’re seeing a bit more in the way of super long and dragged out PvZ games in Europe. We’ve been discussing this internally and believe the main issue comes from using Swarm Hosts in a completely defensive way while taking additional expansions, massing Spore and Spine Crawlers, then continuing to play passively while using Vipers to pull key Protoss units into the forward, massed Zerg defenses. For this strategy, there are two main units involved, as well as the massing of base defenses, and we’d like a change that only hits this specific part of the PvZ game. We believe that when Swarm Hosts are not used in this manner, they aren’t an issue at the moment, especially when we see them being used in a lot of games coming from Korea. Similarly, when Vipers aren’t comboed with a mass of base defenses, we also don’t see the Viper being too powerful in other scenarios.

    So the change that we’re thinking about is:

    A Passive Tempest ability that allows them to deal 2-3 times more damage vs. Structures (We’re not 100% set on the actual value yet.)

    Protoss players who are facing this very passive Zerg style can get Tempests without too much trouble, and they come into play late enough that we’d like to test this change. If Tempests can not only kill the Crawlers much faster, but also allow Protoss to make cost effective trades more easily in this mid-map standoff scenario, we believe there will be much less incentive for Zerg to play this way.

    Again, none of this is final. We haven’t published a balance test map on it, yet. Your feedback is welcome, and if this process goes smoothly, we will look to publish a balance test map within the next couple of weeks at the latest.

    Thank you.


    Via: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...49563?page=1#1

    Huihuihui die greifen echt mal was an ....
    Огонь по готовности - Ogon po gotovnosti - Feuer frei!

  2. #2
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    Toll, dass das vielleicht in der Season passiert.
    Diese Patches zwischen den Seasons sind echt grottig gewesen.

  3. #3
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    Juhu hydra buff 100/25 kein ding dann kommen halt 200supply hydras bei min 11

    Wenn sich das durchsetzt wird es warscheinlich sehr schön sich eine 3te zunehmen als Protoss der derzeitige hydra push ist schon stark wie Sau und man muss einfach wissen das er kommt um ihn abwehren zu können.
    Naja ist nur PTR server ich wart erstma

  4. #4
    King of Mech
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    Zitat Zitat von Mantaza Beitrag anzeigen
    Juhu hydra buff 100/25 kein ding dann kommen halt 200supply hydras bei min 11

    Wenn sich das durchsetzt wird es warscheinlich sehr schön sich eine 3te zunehmen als Protoss der derzeitige hydra push ist schon stark wie Sau und man muss einfach wissen das er kommt um ihn abwehren zu können.
    Naja ist nur PTR server ich wart erstma
    Jetzt kannste davon ausgehen, dass er immer kommt .

    Naja David Kong ist nicht der hellste, wenns um Spielspaß + Balance geht.
    Der einzig wirkliche Change ist der Hydrabuff. Das Ghosts jetzt von Anfang an mit 75 Mana rauskommen ist nur für Leute wichtig, die das Upgrade nie rechtzeitig erforscht haben und ein Mechbuff ist das schon gar nicht.

    WOW 10 Sekunden weniger auf dem Overcharge, macht auch soviel aus wenn der Mamacore volles Mana hat.
    Ready to fight!
    Weaklings are the worst! Never Surrender!

  5. #5
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    Patch kommt diese Woche

    Liebesgrüße von David Kim:


    We’d like to make a small balance patch this week in order to help address PvT concerns, as well as implement a small fix for Daedalus point. Of the changes we’ve tested so far, we feel ready to make the Time Warp and EMP changes right now, but we’ll continue testing other changes as well in case we need to make further adjustments.

    We’ll try our best to make these changes within a week:

    • Time Warp cost increased from 75 to 100
    • Ghosts start with the energy upgrade built in
    • Make the natural expansion ramp smaller on Daedalus Point.


    Here are a few things we’d like to continue testing on a new balance test map:

    • We’d like to try out a sight range nerf to the Mothership Core, as commonly requested by the community. We also believe this could be a really solid direction if the Time Warp and EMP changes aren’t enough.
    • We’d still like to include a Hydralisk buff (but not as big as the current one we’re testing) of some sort for two reasons: To bring more Hydras into play in ZvZ as well as help Roach/Hydra to be more viable vs. Terran.
    • Late game PvZ in Europe is something we’d still like to look into testing/addressing. Looking at games in Korea, we’d still like to keep testing the Tempest change and not touch Swarm Hosts themselves if we can.


    Please keep the discussions happening and constructive feedback is always welcome. Thank you.


    Via: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11580768387
    Огонь по готовности - Ogon po gotovnosti - Feuer frei!

  6. #6
    Mac Moneysac
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    Weiß iwie nicht wie das groß Mech helfen soll - denke für Mech braucht es wohl auch noch erst das letzte Addon.

    The night is dark and full of terrors.

  7. #7
    King of Mech
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    Mal wieder ein Patch, der Timings verschiebt, doch im großen und ganzen nichts ändert und das Gameplay langweilig und eintönig bleibt, wie immer halt .
    Ready to fight!
    Weaklings are the worst! Never Surrender!

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    Zitat Zitat von dezi Beitrag anzeigen
    Weiß iwie nicht wie das groß Mech helfen soll - denke für Mech braucht es wohl auch noch erst das letzte Addon.
    Das müssen die Terras erst lernen!
    (Nicht, dass ein Hydra buff erst letzten Patch erschien und nun weiter gebufft wird...)


    Dass Blizzard versucht Strategien zu pushen wird denen noch das Genick brechen.

  9. #9
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    Wow die rampe auf daedalus point kleiner machn. sowas müssn die testen ? Die map ist bullshit und niemand spielt die gerne.

  10. #10
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    gott sei dank hat david kim an 1 Base PvP gedacht... da bin ich schonmal beruhigt... ist schließlich zur zeit das meistgespielte MU....

    ne ernsthaft... wtf?

  11. #11
    Mac Moneysac
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    Zitat Zitat von zokker13 Beitrag anzeigen
    Das müssen die Terras erst lernen!
    Jo, als ich den seine dummen Comments zur letzten Patchpolitik gelesen hab, hätte ich auch wieder im Quadrat kotzen können ... so lange dieses Arschloch von Kim was zu sagen hat wird SC2 einfach nur auf nem durchaus hohen aber stink eintönig langweiligen Niveau vor sich hindümpeln.

    The night is dark and full of terrors.

  12. #12
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    Zur Balance hat David Kim übrigens eine Art AMA aufm offiziellen Forum gemacht:

    http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11642864359#1

    Zusammenfassung:


    Why is Starcraft 2 so much more deathball-y than Brood War?

    We believe armies as a whole are easier to move around and control because of the better pathing and unlimited unit selection.

    As far as deathball goes, we believe having to micro armies and their positioning correctly to win major battles is a good thing. We don't like seeing games where two players both just sit back and mass up to their composition before engaging. This is why we're currently looking into the EU late game PvZ issue.

    We feel like we've done a lot in this area in HotS, especially compared to the end of Wings. If you recall towards the end of Wings, especially in PvT, both sides often just defended and macroed up for 1 final battle.

    We don't think we're completely there yet and will continue working towards a more action packed game where there's a lot of action leading into army vs. army battles sometimes. The end goal in this area in our opinion is not to get rid of mass army vs. mass army scenarios, but more so to have a lot of action, a lot of harassment opportunities, and have each game feeling different.

    Do you believe that the swarm host is proving to be used in the way that you wanted it to when you designed the unit for HotS?

    The first question in our minds don't matter as much at this point. At this point of the game, with the game having been out over a year, changing a unit or a strategy to be used exactly how we hoped isn't very relevant. What's more important is how they are currently being used and how good or bad that is for the game.

    The answer for the second question is yes in some scenarios and no in others. The easy no is the late game PvZ situation where both players refuse to engage and the game drags on for a long time. We'd really love to come up with an awesome solution to this problem without hurting the good uses of Swarm Hosts. The good use of Swarm Hosts: games that we see where there's constant action due to Swarm Hosts. For example, it's not uncommon to see games where Protoss players perform amazing multi-pronged attacks. Sometimes, they are really successful and just win the game, other times the Zerg player defends so well, and anywhere in between. Games where Swarm Hosts are used and there's constant action everywhere including Swarm Hosts aggressively moving around often after spawning locusts leading into each side's victory are really fun to watch.

    We don't generally do unit design changes with patches (only exception here I can think of off the top of my head was when we added the Phoenix range upgrade back in Wings), but for the Swarm Host in the long term, we are also internally discussing if it's a bad thing that locusts keep spawning automatically. The main reason being often times Zerg players just leave Swarm Hosts rally pointed at a location, and it's very common for the observer to go and watch nothing happening because there are no units to attack. But this isn't as big of an issue as the issue mentioned above.

    When are you going to nerf the mothership core vision or at least make a balance testmap to try it out.

    We wouldn't do a patch without at least testing the change first even if it's only for a few days. We do try our best to talk to pro players every time we do a test map, and our stance is that getting at least a few pros to test a change before we patch is always good. As for when the next balance test map is, we're currently gathering feedback including feedback from the community forums, and we hope to start laying out the actual change list for you guys to have an input on sometime next week.

    We don't believe tanks suck. Tanks seem to be a lot more effective in TvZ since the last buff, in TvT they were always very core and still are, and in PvT we do currently agree they're not being used much. But our stance on every unit is that not every single unit has to be used in every matchup. For example, Widow Mine especially before the nerf was considered one of the best units for Terran even though it was only really core in one matchup.

    With that said, I'd like to add that exploring mech play possibilities in PvT is still important. We've actually been getting feedback from a few different pros on the KR server in this area, and they've been seeing it a lot more on the ladder. We're hoping to see more of it in tournaments to confirm where mech is at right now in PvT.

    Late game Swarm Host PvZ is one of the things at the top of our list to look into right now.

    What are your thoughts on the current state of ZvZ?

    We do agree ZvZ is probably the fastest paced matchup in the game, and it really comes down to every little decision and fast action. We believe this is very unique to the ZvZ matchup and is a good thing. Better players still seem to win out overall, and just the big difference of ZvZ compared to other matchups is cool, the same way TvT is interesting for a completely different set of reasons.

    As far as specific strategies and tools go in ZvZ, we do feel like players are favoring mass Roach play a lot more recently. That's why we've been exploring potential Hydralisk buffs. We believe a Hydralisk buff in this matchup could bring the Roach/Hydra mix in quicker to combat only-Roach compositions. The advantage of this: in Roach vs. Roach the defender's advantage is smaller than in Roach vs. Roach/Hydra. Therefore, we could potentially see units that counter these compositions such as Ultralisks or Broodlords a bit more.

    We believe each matchup in SC2 is not only about the matchup being fair, but also about each matchup being unique and fun.

    What are your plans in order to make "forgotten" units such as Battlecruiser, Broodlord, Viper, etc. usable in high level matches?

    We've learned that capital units such as BCs, Carriers, or Motherships are rare and lose their cool if they were built every game. Imagine every PvT ending with BCs. We are discussing ways to make captial ships more interesting to use and watch so that we can bring these units into play more often in the future. But I wouldn't say there will be changes coming to make this happen any time soon, as this is a tricky area that potentially requires delicate design changes. As I said earlier today, we prefer not to do design changes in a patch if we can, because changing how the unit functions completely will be very confusing to players.

    Why are the developers so resistant towards the idea of changing Warp Gate and Forcefield?



    We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates.

    Warp Gates were problematic in the past when 1 base or 2 base all ins were too common. We've addressed this a lot in past years.

    We've talked about our stance on Force Fields in the past, and it still remains unchanged. We feel like we get a lot of feedback from forums saying there's no micro anyone can do against Force Fields. However, we just don't see this. For example, why do Zerglings or roaches try to bait out Force Fields if micro against them is not possible? Terran players picking off units on one side of Force Fields and dropping them on the more favorable side is another good example. We believe Force Fields are a very unique ability that sometimes feel there was nothing you could do, but that is okay because there are varying degrees of successes and failures. That is just StarCraft: If DTs come in when I have no detectors I'm dead, but that doesn't mean there was nothing I could have done.

    Are you planning on helping terrans with blink allins?

    The patch yesterday we believe should help. In case that's not enough, we will be testing other changes soon in the next balance test map

    Is there any chance of reverting the oracle speed buff and making it an upgrade at the fleet beacon?

    At first, right when we made the change we saw a lot of Oracle play, but that has toned down. We got some "Oracle OP" feedback from pro players up until the end of last year. However, when we put it like this, most seem to understand our stance a bit better:

    Harassment options such as the Oracle harrass get weaker over time due to players learning how to defend better against them. Think back to when everyone was convinced that the Medivac speed boost was completely broken and OP. Almost no one says this now. Then look at Oracle usage right when that patch was released, look at how much they're used now, then how much less would it be 2 months from now even without nerfs. Another good example is Banshee cloak change in TvT: almost every TvT when the patch was made utilized it, but that's not the case now.

    What are you guys thoughts on the raven.

    We like the unit as a whole. The main thing we're watching for with this unit is the mass Raven case in TvZ that allows Terran to just turtle the whole game while making a ridiculous number of Ravens. If this becomes a common trend or one of the best ways to play, we would need to address that.

    Do you see any problems with Zerg of lacking Anti-Air especially early and lategame?

    In PvZ, we don't currently think Phoenix openers are problematic. It is a very core opener for Protoss, but doesn't cause major problems. Late game mass Raven/BC turtling play is something we're watching for. If it becomes clear that it's an issue, we'll take steps to address it.


    Jetzt mag ich ihn auch nicht mehr:

    As I said earlier today, we prefer not to do design changes in a patch if we can, because changing how the unit functions completely will be very confusing to players.
    Son blödsinn - In Dota2/LoL werden auch grundlegende Elemente gepatched und jeder der Casual Spieler checkts - warum sollen es die Sc2 Spieler dann nicht raffen?
    Geändert von stone (07.02.2014 um 12:27 Uhr)
    Огонь по готовности - Ogon po gotovnosti - Feuer frei!

  13. #13
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    Zitat Zitat von stone Beitrag anzeigen

    Son blödsinn - In Dota2/LoL werden auch grundlegende Elemente gepatched und jeder der Casual Spieler checkts - warum sollen es die Sc2 Spieler dann nicht raffen?
    Sie finden es wohl besser, wenn man ein schlechtes Spiel hat als Änderungen.
    Finde die Antworten ziemlich fad.

    Keine wirklichen Aussagen und nur wage beschreibungen.

  14. #14
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    Anscheinend wolen se jetzt wirklich was im SPiel bewegen - wird ja auch mal Zeit:


    Before we begin, I’d like to point out these changes are for a test map. There seems to be some confusion when we’ve tested changes in the past that all the changes we are testing are going to be patched into the game. This is simply not the case. Please keep this in mind as you consider and respond to the change-list.

    • Mothership Core vision radius decreased from 14 to 9
    • Blink cooldown increased from 10 to 15
    • Widow Mine splash damage component deals 40 + 40 shield damage
    • Tempest ground weapon damage increased from 30 to 30+30-to-structures
    • Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75


    Via: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11674147788#1
    Огонь по готовности - Ogon po gotovnosti - Feuer frei!

  15. #15
    King of Mech
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    Zitat Zitat von stone Beitrag anzeigen
    Anscheinend wolen se jetzt wirklich was im SPiel bewegen - wird ja auch mal Zeit:


    Before we begin, I’d like to point out these changes are for a test map. There seems to be some confusion when we’ve tested changes in the past that all the changes we are testing are going to be patched into the game. This is simply not the case. Please keep this in mind as you consider and respond to the change-list.

    • Mothership Core vision radius decreased from 14 to 9
    • Blink cooldown increased from 10 to 15
    • Widow Mine splash damage component deals 40 + 40 shield damage
    • Tempest ground weapon damage increased from 30 to 30+30-to-structures
    • Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75


    Via: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11674147788#1
    Das sind zwar sehr schön geplante Änderungen, aber ich vermute, dass es grad mal die Hälfte von denen ins aktuelle Spiel schaffen werden und das so abgeschwächt, dass man diese changes kaum bemerken wird.
    Ready to fight!
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  16. #16
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    interessant die changes könnten wirklich nen guten Impact auf das TvP haben.

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